I received this email from Reader Josh. This is a very interesting dilemma he finds himself in as a new trader. For SMB Readers do you have any advice to offer Reader Josh?
Hello Bella,
I believe my question is geared towards adjustments. I am 25 years old. I have been playing poker and making money in it since 2004 playing online cash games, 8 tables at once. i can process information extremely quickly and can be aggressive enough to be able to manage that many tables with positive expectation almost every week. I am a recent graduate (april 2009) of online trading academy. I have been making money trading options and trading the underlying on intraday basis fairly consistently. My background is in mathematics and economics and i try to employ game theory to day trading as much as possible as if i were playing poker. now since i am 25 i think i am prolly much more aggressive in nature than someone trading in their 30s and 40s. I tend to react extremely quickly to the information and am willing to get into multiple positions at a time, sometimes 8+ at once if the conditions are met. In most cases, i am looking to momentum scalp for quarters and dimes. I am working with my father on trading and he is extremely conservative. so much, that on intraday trading he will put restrictions such that i can only long or short into unrealistic supply and demand zones (extremities) with distorted potential profit. now while this can be effective i am used to constantly being involved and this causes me to lose focus and lose money when i am forced to trade within his parameters. I keep showing him my trade lists when i have 75+ trades a day and it has yielded positive expectation with almost all winning days for the last 3 months. Now when i employ his methodology and i can really only get into 4-8 positions at most throughout the day i have been a net loser. He wont seem to budge and it appears that i am going to have to accommodate stylistically to his view of how intraday trading should be managed. How do i make the adjustments to ensure that i have positive expected value when i have to reduce my own tendencies to compensate for someone else’s?
Thank you for your time and consideration,
Josh
SMB
On Wednesday after sorting through all of the ideas from our readers I will offer some thoughts.
47 Comments on “From the Mailbag – Part 4”
Be careful. Your dad is putting you in a cage. You seem like the kind of guy who needs to fly free. I am 27 and showed good signs at 25 with limited experience. The thing is. When you aren’t completely happy with your trading, you may tinker a bit too much, and one day go crazy. It has happened to me three times since i was 25, expecting to never have a down month. Then i miss an exit by one tick, and decide to scalp a tick to make myself feel satisfied, then i mes it up and am 4 ticks of my intra day high. I then scalp crude or gold for four ticks because i am good enough to pull four ticks out of a market with no problem, only i mess up again and am now 10 ticks in the hole. I scalp a huge position for three ticks to get back to my intra day high, and guess what, i lose thousands. This is the confidence of youth working against you. OK for days, weeks, months, then BAM, i am playing with loose money and suddenly i am losing large chunks of my net worth.
To summarise,be very careful and always always thinking and planning. The true answer for what to do with your system and with your dad is there for you to grasp if you just ponder it hard enough. But tread carefully because despite what you think, you are only a few clicks of your mouse away from major drama until you answer these deep questions.
Be careful. Your dad is putting you in a cage. You seem like the kind of guy who needs to fly free. I am 27 and showed good signs at 25 with limited experience. The thing is. When you aren’t completely happy with your trading, you may tinker a bit too much, and one day go crazy. It has happened to me three times since i was 25, expecting to never have a down month. Then i miss an exit by one tick, and decide to scalp a tick to make myself feel satisfied, then i mes it up and am 4 ticks of my intra day high. I then scalp crude or gold for four ticks because i am good enough to pull four ticks out of a market with no problem, only i mess up again and am now 10 ticks in the hole. I scalp a huge position for three ticks to get back to my intra day high, and guess what, i lose thousands. This is the confidence of youth working against you. OK for days, weeks, months, then BAM, i am playing with loose money and suddenly i am losing large chunks of my net worth.
To summarise,be very careful and always always thinking and planning. The true answer for what to do with your system and with your dad is there for you to grasp if you just ponder it hard enough. But tread carefully because despite what you think, you are only a few clicks of your mouse away from major drama until you answer these deep questions.
Be careful. Your dad is putting you in a cage. You seem like the kind of guy who needs to fly free. I am 27 and showed good signs at 25 with limited experience. The thing is. When you aren’t completely happy with your trading, you may tinker a bit too much, and one day go crazy. It has happened to me three times since i was 25, expecting to never have a down month. Then i miss an exit by one tick, and decide to scalp a tick to make myself feel satisfied, then i mes it up and am 4 ticks of my intra day high. I then scalp crude or gold for four ticks because i am good enough to pull four ticks out of a market with no problem, only i mess up again and am now 10 ticks in the hole. I scalp a huge position for three ticks to get back to my intra day high, and guess what, i lose thousands. This is the confidence of youth working against you. OK for days, weeks, months, then BAM, i am playing with loose money and suddenly i am losing large chunks of my net worth.
To summarise,be very careful and always always thinking and planning. The true answer for what to do with your system and with your dad is there for you to grasp if you just ponder it hard enough. But tread carefully because despite what you think, you are only a few clicks of your mouse away from major drama until you answer these deep questions.
shovel to pa’s head and bury him in the backyard.
shovel to pa’s head and bury him in the backyard.
shovel to pa’s head and bury him in the backyard.
I spent a large amount of time attempting to trade methods that do not fit my personality. I started position trading because everyone around me said daytrading was too risky. When I wasn’t learning fast enough, I switched to swing trading. It was okay (I still do it some), but not my cup of tea.
I entered daytrading once I had a thorough understanding of what is involved, and assured myself I could keep risk under control. I wish I had started there. Daytrading isn’t necessarily risky. Trading a system that doesn’t fit you is.
Some styles of daytrading fit my personality. I have developed my own ways of interrogating the market, and my methods are constantly changing. I enjoy the changes.
I listen to others’ rules. I listen to people who have been trading much longer and with more success than I. However, I don’t incorporate their rules into my trading unless I see a benefit. I simply can’t trade someone else’s system.
My advice: Become an entrepreneur slowly. Develop a strong plan. So strong you know exactly what you’ll be doing for the first month of your plan. Only then, take a month off from your “real job.” Execute your plan on a small scale. Realize this is your chance to “sow your wild oats” so do your best. You’re looking for consistency, not large profits.
At the end of the month, look at the results. I’d wager that you’ll have plenty of options at that point, and will have closed no (or few) doors.
Poor results: Go back to your real job and decide if you want to adjust your plan.
Good results: Go back to your real job. Fine-tune your plan. Get ready to try again in the future.
Great results: Fine-tune your plan and look for consistency. If you believe your results will continue, thank your father for his help and head out on your own.
I spent a large amount of time attempting to trade methods that do not fit my personality. I started position trading because everyone around me said daytrading was too risky. When I wasn’t learning fast enough, I switched to swing trading. It was okay (I still do it some), but not my cup of tea.
I entered daytrading once I had a thorough understanding of what is involved, and assured myself I could keep risk under control. I wish I had started there. Daytrading isn’t necessarily risky. Trading a system that doesn’t fit you is.
Some styles of daytrading fit my personality. I have developed my own ways of interrogating the market, and my methods are constantly changing. I enjoy the changes.
I listen to others’ rules. I listen to people who have been trading much longer and with more success than I. However, I don’t incorporate their rules into my trading unless I see a benefit. I simply can’t trade someone else’s system.
My advice: Become an entrepreneur slowly. Develop a strong plan. So strong you know exactly what you’ll be doing for the first month of your plan. Only then, take a month off from your “real job.” Execute your plan on a small scale. Realize this is your chance to “sow your wild oats” so do your best. You’re looking for consistency, not large profits.
At the end of the month, look at the results. I’d wager that you’ll have plenty of options at that point, and will have closed no (or few) doors.
Poor results: Go back to your real job and decide if you want to adjust your plan.
Good results: Go back to your real job. Fine-tune your plan. Get ready to try again in the future.
Great results: Fine-tune your plan and look for consistency. If you believe your results will continue, thank your father for his help and head out on your own.
I spent a large amount of time attempting to trade methods that do not fit my personality. I started position trading because everyone around me said daytrading was too risky. When I wasn’t learning fast enough, I switched to swing trading. It was okay (I still do it some), but not my cup of tea.
I entered daytrading once I had a thorough understanding of what is involved, and assured myself I could keep risk under control. I wish I had started there. Daytrading isn’t necessarily risky. Trading a system that doesn’t fit you is.
Some styles of daytrading fit my personality. I have developed my own ways of interrogating the market, and my methods are constantly changing. I enjoy the changes.
I listen to others’ rules. I listen to people who have been trading much longer and with more success than I. However, I don’t incorporate their rules into my trading unless I see a benefit. I simply can’t trade someone else’s system.
My advice: Become an entrepreneur slowly. Develop a strong plan. So strong you know exactly what you’ll be doing for the first month of your plan. Only then, take a month off from your “real job.” Execute your plan on a small scale. Realize this is your chance to “sow your wild oats” so do your best. You’re looking for consistency, not large profits.
At the end of the month, look at the results. I’d wager that you’ll have plenty of options at that point, and will have closed no (or few) doors.
Poor results: Go back to your real job and decide if you want to adjust your plan.
Good results: Go back to your real job. Fine-tune your plan. Get ready to try again in the future.
Great results: Fine-tune your plan and look for consistency. If you believe your results will continue, thank your father for his help and head out on your own.
Trade your own style.
And learn to capitalize the first word of a sentence.
Trade your own style.
And learn to capitalize the first word of a sentence.
Trade your own style.
And learn to capitalize the first word of a sentence.
Trading is hard enough as it is so having to adapt your system to someone else’s parameters is not a feasible way of sustaining consistency. It’s like sticking a round key into a square lock. I would think the only time that such a big adjustment is necessary/advantageous is when such an adjustment would net you more profit in the long run. However, it seems like Josh has already found his “sweet spot.” It probably would be more profitable for him to fine tune his system rather than fit his system to parameters that seriously hinders his performance.
Trading is hard enough as it is so having to adapt your system to someone else’s parameters is not a feasible way of sustaining consistency. It’s like sticking a round key into a square lock. I would think the only time that such a big adjustment is necessary/advantageous is when such an adjustment would net you more profit in the long run. However, it seems like Josh has already found his “sweet spot.” It probably would be more profitable for him to fine tune his system rather than fit his system to parameters that seriously hinders his performance.
Trading is hard enough as it is so having to adapt your system to someone else’s parameters is not a feasible way of sustaining consistency. It’s like sticking a round key into a square lock. I would think the only time that such a big adjustment is necessary/advantageous is when such an adjustment would net you more profit in the long run. However, it seems like Josh has already found his “sweet spot.” It probably would be more profitable for him to fine tune his system rather than fit his system to parameters that seriously hinders his performance.
You need to tell your dad to fund and trade his own account.
It’s mentally challenging enough to trade on your own you don’t need another brain to distract you.
It just gets into your mind like when i was playing poker and somebody was looking at my cards and telling me what to do. You got your way of doing things and then you also go somebody else critiquing and putting in their input.
You need to tell your dad to fund and trade his own account.
It’s mentally challenging enough to trade on your own you don’t need another brain to distract you.
It just gets into your mind like when i was playing poker and somebody was looking at my cards and telling me what to do. You got your way of doing things and then you also go somebody else critiquing and putting in their input.
You need to tell your dad to fund and trade his own account.
It’s mentally challenging enough to trade on your own you don’t need another brain to distract you.
It just gets into your mind like when i was playing poker and somebody was looking at my cards and telling me what to do. You got your way of doing things and then you also go somebody else critiquing and putting in their input.
Get your own money (get a job?) – Trade your own system ..
Get your own money (get a job?) – Trade your own system ..
Get your own money (get a job?) – Trade your own system ..
I’ve been following the SMB blogs and tweets for only a few months, but I know I can contribute here with a continued poker analogy. I’ve been a professional poker player since I graduated with a degree in economics and finance from Miami University in Ohio. The biggest lesson I’ve learned in trying to consistently improve my poker game relates to your dilemma.
To put it simply, your “game” depends on how well you can adjust to your opponents (market conditions) within your OWN style of play. Your style of play is different than your father’s style. That does not make either of your methods or styles wrong provided they both have a long term positive expectation.
In trading and poker, I think there are many resources for learning how to improve and become more profitable. I try to always be better than the people that taught me how to play by acting as a sponge for all information. Only then do I begin applying it within my own style of play. While I have never been an active daytrader in my life(I’m sure one day I will be), I know that I’ve never been more successful in poker than when I’ve learned from a multitude of sources and applied it within my own talents.
Take heart; you’re being confronted with some of the most challenging fear, control and family issues that helps make you stronger – on so many fronts. The “Life” challenge and seemingly moral dilema you’re facing is infinitely more complex than the quatifiable scenarios in poker, game theory or econometrics.
Having an immediate family member as a backer requires clear contractual terms describing methodology, risk mgmt approach and compensation terms — write it down. The agreement should not be arbitrated in an Ad Hoc proviso fashion. The more qualified the agreement, the better. If you have not done this, then a “reset” is in order. I don’t care if you’re trading, driving subs, driving cross country, securing a hot zone or heading into the final table — your youth and advanced neuron synapse biochemical communications will never make up for a quantifiable plan; especially with family.
If you insist on continuing with the angst of being backed by your Dad, then I would offer another suggestion: Have a beer with Dad. He does care, you have his money, but not his unqualified trust and the overprotective risk parameters are a tell tale sign. This is why having family as “backers” can be so challenging, the more they care and closer they are … the harder it is. IMHO, the only way a “reset” is possible is if you make your point, he looks you straight in the eye, pauses …. and agrees; then, you have his trust.
How you handle, negotiate and ameliorate this life scenario will help define your persuasive communication skills in a compelling and definitive way. Think – closing argument in a trial with your defendant’s future depending upon the ethos, pathos and logos of your
words and conviction.
I would give anything to be in your shoes and have my Dad back for a good debate over a beer — embrace it.
Mark
I’ve been following the SMB blogs and tweets for only a few months, but I know I can contribute here with a continued poker analogy. I’ve been a professional poker player since I graduated with a degree in economics and finance from Miami University in Ohio. The biggest lesson I’ve learned in trying to consistently improve my poker game relates to your dilemma.
To put it simply, your “game” depends on how well you can adjust to your opponents (market conditions) within your OWN style of play. Your style of play is different than your father’s style. That does not make either of your methods or styles wrong provided they both have a long term positive expectation.
In trading and poker, I think there are many resources for learning how to improve and become more profitable. I try to always be better than the people that taught me how to play by acting as a sponge for all information. Only then do I begin applying it within my own style of play. While I have never been an active daytrader in my life(I’m sure one day I will be), I know that I’ve never been more successful in poker than when I’ve learned from a multitude of sources and applied it within my own talents.
Take heart; you’re being confronted with some of the most challenging fear, control and family issues that helps make you stronger – on so many fronts. The “Life” challenge and seemingly moral dilema you’re facing is infinitely more complex than the quatifiable scenarios in poker, game theory or econometrics.
Having an immediate family member as a backer requires clear contractual terms describing methodology, risk mgmt approach and compensation terms — write it down. The agreement should not be arbitrated in an Ad Hoc proviso fashion. The more qualified the agreement, the better. If you have not done this, then a “reset” is in order. I don’t care if you’re trading, driving subs, driving cross country, securing a hot zone or heading into the final table — your youth and advanced neuron synapse biochemical communications will never make up for a quantifiable plan; especially with family.
If you insist on continuing with the angst of being backed by your Dad, then I would offer another suggestion: Have a beer with Dad. He does care, you have his money, but not his unqualified trust and the overprotective risk parameters are a tell tale sign. This is why having family as “backers” can be so challenging, the more they care and closer they are … the harder it is. IMHO, the only way a “reset” is possible is if you make your point, he looks you straight in the eye, pauses …. and agrees; then, you have his trust.
How you handle, negotiate and ameliorate this life scenario will help define your persuasive communication skills in a compelling and definitive way. Think – closing argument in a trial with your defendant’s future depending upon the ethos, pathos and logos of your
words and conviction.
I would give anything to be in your shoes and have my Dad back for a good debate over a beer — embrace it.
Mark
What I understood from this mail:
– you have a strategy that works and a track record that proves it;
– due to the age conflict between you and your father, your trading approaches are different;
– you have o follow your father strategy and in this way you are not feelng comfortable and your reward is in a downtrend.
Some questions on my mind:
1) Why do you have to follow your father approach when yours also can produce positive return?
2) Why don’t you trade on your own?
My humble point of view:
You know why communism can never work and it failed so dramatically? Because insects are not equal, animals are not equal and…people are not equal! If we were then we had been robots. What I wrote it may look ‘bla-bla’ but it is something I learned the hard way (like almost everything).
I had the same problem, altough in opposite way. I have 24 yrs old and I like the conservative approach. I couldn’t work on it because the people around me/floor manager were looking for momentum trades, a lot of trades, in and out, that after 30 minutes my head was spining. The results were bad and the consequence was that I didn’t have a grip on myself and I wasn’t able to see the forest for the trees. But finally, I woke up and started to work on what I knew it fits my personality. And it was something different.
Of course no one is guilty that for so long I was lost in the trading jungle, the only responsible for this is me: I should have shut my ears on the advices that I knew it didn’t fit me.
My advice?
Smile, say like your father and trade like you think. This is why trading is made by people and not robots: because everyone has a style of its own!
You can make adjustments only if your style is not profitable.
What I understood from this mail:
– you have a strategy that works and a track record that proves it;
– due to the age conflict between you and your father, your trading approaches are different;
– you have o follow your father strategy and in this way you are not feelng comfortable and your reward is in a downtrend.
Some questions on my mind:
1) Why do you have to follow your father approach when yours also can produce positive return?
2) Why don’t you trade on your own?
My humble point of view:
You know why communism can never work and it failed so dramatically? Because insects are not equal, animals are not equal and…people are not equal! If we were then we had been robots. What I wrote it may look ‘bla-bla’ but it is something I learned the hard way (like almost everything).
I had the same problem, altough in opposite way. I have 24 yrs old and I like the conservative approach. I couldn’t work on it because the people around me/floor manager were looking for momentum trades, a lot of trades, in and out, that after 30 minutes my head was spining. The results were bad and the consequence was that I didn’t have a grip on myself and I wasn’t able to see the forest for the trees. But finally, I woke up and started to work on what I knew it fits my personality. And it was something different.
Of course no one is guilty that for so long I was lost in the trading jungle, the only responsible for this is me: I should have shut my ears on the advices that I knew it didn’t fit me.
My advice?
Smile, say like your father and trade like you think. This is why trading is made by people and not robots: because everyone has a style of its own!
You can make adjustments only if your style is not profitable.
What I understood from this mail:
– you have a strategy that works and a track record that proves it;
– due to the age conflict between you and your father, your trading approaches are different;
– you have o follow your father strategy and in this way you are not feelng comfortable and your reward is in a downtrend.
Some questions on my mind:
1) Why do you have to follow your father approach when yours also can produce positive return?
2) Why don’t you trade on your own?
My humble point of view:
You know why communism can never work and it failed so dramatically? Because insects are not equal, animals are not equal and…people are not equal! If we were then we had been robots. What I wrote it may look ‘bla-bla’ but it is something I learned the hard way (like almost everything).
I had the same problem, altough in opposite way. I have 24 yrs old and I like the conservative approach. I couldn’t work on it because the people around me/floor manager were looking for momentum trades, a lot of trades, in and out, that after 30 minutes my head was spining. The results were bad and the consequence was that I didn’t have a grip on myself and I wasn’t able to see the forest for the trees. But finally, I woke up and started to work on what I knew it fits my personality. And it was something different.
Of course no one is guilty that for so long I was lost in the trading jungle, the only responsible for this is me: I should have shut my ears on the advices that I knew it didn’t fit me.
My advice?
Smile, say like your father and trade like you think. This is why trading is made by people and not robots: because everyone has a style of its own!
You can make adjustments only if your style is not profitable.
Josh,
Seems to me that you might have two issues–one being your relationship with your father, and the other, your relationship with the market, or diving a little deeper, maybe with *yourself*.
When I starting reading your account of your problem, I said, “what the…25? His Dad said what? And he did what?” It’s been a very long time since I’ve allowed anyone to tell me how to conduct my affairs (hope my wife’s not reading this). I think I momentarily forgot what it’s like to be a young man, having to deal with that uncomfortable time when you have to start the process of breaking away from your parents’ influence and becoming your own man–whether your father is ready for it or not.
It’s tough to tell the person who, to you, once was a literal giant who could do no wrong that it’s time for you carve out your own way. It needs to be done delicately and with love or you risk making him feel rejected or unneeded. But it needs to be done. If not now, when? Will it be easier in a year? In three years? I have two sons who have reached your age, and I’m going through the same process with both of them right now. And you know what? I like it. It’s kind of weird but in a way satisfying to sit down and have a beer with my son and talk about *his* work.
The other issue is, why do you feel you need to trade so much? It might be perfectly legitimate, I don’t know. You say you’re profitable, and you know the percentage of retail traders who are profitable, after trading costs, so good for you. But are you trading because you’ve found great setups, and these scalping setups require dozens of trades? Or is it because you just feel the need to trade, out of boredom, the need for excitement, for validation, or because of something else that’s missing in your life?
Do you only trade when conditions are favorable for your trading style, or do you find yourself forcing trades? How do you feel when you don’t trade? Sad? Fidgety? Unfulfilled? If so, you might want to explore (on your own or with a professional) your reasons for trading in the first place. Understanding yourself will make you a better trader and a better person.
Josh,
Seems to me that you might have two issues–one being your relationship with your father, and the other, your relationship with the market, or diving a little deeper, maybe with *yourself*.
When I starting reading your account of your problem, I said, “what the…25? His Dad said what? And he did what?” It’s been a very long time since I’ve allowed anyone to tell me how to conduct my affairs (hope my wife’s not reading this). I think I momentarily forgot what it’s like to be a young man, having to deal with that uncomfortable time when you have to start the process of breaking away from your parents’ influence and becoming your own man–whether your father is ready for it or not.
It’s tough to tell the person who, to you, once was a literal giant who could do no wrong that it’s time for you carve out your own way. It needs to be done delicately and with love or you risk making him feel rejected or unneeded. But it needs to be done. If not now, when? Will it be easier in a year? In three years? I have two sons who have reached your age, and I’m going through the same process with both of them right now. And you know what? I like it. It’s kind of weird but in a way satisfying to sit down and have a beer with my son and talk about *his* work.
The other issue is, why do you feel you need to trade so much? It might be perfectly legitimate, I don’t know. You say you’re profitable, and you know the percentage of retail traders who are profitable, after trading costs, so good for you. But are you trading because you’ve found great setups, and these scalping setups require dozens of trades? Or is it because you just feel the need to trade, out of boredom, the need for excitement, for validation, or because of something else that’s missing in your life?
Do you only trade when conditions are favorable for your trading style, or do you find yourself forcing trades? How do you feel when you don’t trade? Sad? Fidgety? Unfulfilled? If so, you might want to explore (on your own or with a professional) your reasons for trading in the first place. Understanding yourself will make you a better trader and a better person.
Play enough poker to save up a trading stake (10K will get you sufficient leverage at most prop shops) and trade on your own. If you already have positive expectancy in both poker and trading, you are wasting time trading under your dad’s parameters, unless your dad is Paul Tudor Jones.
Play enough poker to save up a trading stake (10K will get you sufficient leverage at most prop shops) and trade on your own. If you already have positive expectancy in both poker and trading, you are wasting time trading under your dad’s parameters, unless your dad is Paul Tudor Jones.
My two cents?
Listen to your Dad.
When I was 25 I took 5k to 30k and thought I was a god only to lose everything and then some.
I’ve never met a profitable trader who said “I wish I wasn’t so conservative in my early days” It’s always much easier to become more aggressive than become more conservative, so at worst case scenario after a year of trading your dad’s way and losing money (probably a small amount), you can always try again and go crazy trading your way.
I also think you should keep trading your style on a demo account. Since the demo is pretty useless for day trading, you’ve got to aim for the lights to really see skill- see if you can make $100k a day for a month straight trading only 1000 shares.
My two cents?
Listen to your Dad.
When I was 25 I took 5k to 30k and thought I was a god only to lose everything and then some.
I’ve never met a profitable trader who said “I wish I wasn’t so conservative in my early days” It’s always much easier to become more aggressive than become more conservative, so at worst case scenario after a year of trading your dad’s way and losing money (probably a small amount), you can always try again and go crazy trading your way.
I also think you should keep trading your style on a demo account. Since the demo is pretty useless for day trading, you’ve got to aim for the lights to really see skill- see if you can make $100k a day for a month straight trading only 1000 shares.
My two cents?
Listen to your Dad.
When I was 25 I took 5k to 30k and thought I was a god only to lose everything and then some.
I’ve never met a profitable trader who said “I wish I wasn’t so conservative in my early days” It’s always much easier to become more aggressive than become more conservative, so at worst case scenario after a year of trading your dad’s way and losing money (probably a small amount), you can always try again and go crazy trading your way.
I also think you should keep trading your style on a demo account. Since the demo is pretty useless for day trading, you’ve got to aim for the lights to really see skill- see if you can make $100k a day for a month straight trading only 1000 shares.
I’d have to agree with some of the other comments. Don’t necessarily change your approach just to fit someone else’s expectations especially if you already have positive expectation. When it feels forced you won’t do well.
I personally refuse to trade for family and friends for this exact exact reason. I’m my own boss in trading…I don’t need more “bosses” (friends, family, clients, etc.) getting in my way. =)
I’d have to agree with some of the other comments. Don’t necessarily change your approach just to fit someone else’s expectations especially if you already have positive expectation. When it feels forced you won’t do well.
I personally refuse to trade for family and friends for this exact exact reason. I’m my own boss in trading…I don’t need more “bosses” (friends, family, clients, etc.) getting in my way. =)
I’d have to agree with some of the other comments. Don’t necessarily change your approach just to fit someone else’s expectations especially if you already have positive expectation. When it feels forced you won’t do well.
I personally refuse to trade for family and friends for this exact exact reason. I’m my own boss in trading…I don’t need more “bosses” (friends, family, clients, etc.) getting in my way. =)
Trading is about building a system. The market doesnt supply you with a set of rules, you must make your own and have the discipline to obey them. Everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses. I would advise you to identify your strengths and develop trading plays that work for you; not your father. Build on your strengths, and work hard to eliminate your weaknesses. If you are to become a successful trader you must find the stocks and trading plays that work for you! If momentum plays are working for you stick with them, but also be flexible and realize that not all plays will work as well as market structure changes. Also, understand that the best traders are always learning from other great traders. So you and your Father could learn a lot from one another
Trading is about building a system. The market doesnt supply you with a set of rules, you must make your own and have the discipline to obey them. Everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses. I would advise you to identify your strengths and develop trading plays that work for you; not your father. Build on your strengths, and work hard to eliminate your weaknesses. If you are to become a successful trader you must find the stocks and trading plays that work for you! If momentum plays are working for you stick with them, but also be flexible and realize that not all plays will work as well as market structure changes. Also, understand that the best traders are always learning from other great traders. So you and your Father could learn a lot from one another
Trading is about building a system. The market doesnt supply you with a set of rules, you must make your own and have the discipline to obey them. Everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses. I would advise you to identify your strengths and develop trading plays that work for you; not your father. Build on your strengths, and work hard to eliminate your weaknesses. If you are to become a successful trader you must find the stocks and trading plays that work for you! If momentum plays are working for you stick with them, but also be flexible and realize that not all plays will work as well as market structure changes. Also, understand that the best traders are always learning from other great traders. So you and your Father could learn a lot from one another
I agree with what OC wrote…
and as far as this by the Knicks David Lee… “see if you can make $100k a day for a month straight trading only 1000 shares.” thats kinda crazy…
It is really hard to combine money with family… even friends… they should never mix… but if your dad makes good money with a strategy listen to him and make money with him… if he does not make money paper trade your own style and find your system to taking money from the market..
“Now when i employ his methodology and i can really only get into 4-8 positions at most throughout the day i have been a net loser. He wont seem to budge and it appears that i am going to have to accommodate stylistically to his view of how intraday trading should be managed. How do i make the adjustments to ensure that i have positive expected value when i have to reduce my own tendencies to compensate for someone else’s?”
Seems like your trading environment is complicated, try trading alone or with people who can teach you.
I think that having someone close helping you with your trading is great. Im in a similar situation and I love it.
Just listen to what your father has to say and take what you like. Also try once in a while his style and find out why is not comfortable for you, remember, not all changes are supposed to be comfortable and if doesnt work you can always go back to what you were doing.
I think that having someone close helping you with your trading is great. Im in a similar situation and I love it.
Just listen to what your father has to say and take what you like. Also try once in a while his style and find out why is not comfortable for you, remember, not all changes are supposed to be comfortable and if doesnt work you can always go back to what you were doing.
You have to trade your own style because everyone’s risk tolerance is different. I trade conservatively but my trading partner trades risky. Together we have a synergy so we can bounce ideas off each other. We each trade our own account so we each risk what we can tolerate.
If your father is having control issues, he may need to be convinced you have a good risk management plan and the discipline to stick to it NO MATTER WHAT.
If each of you have a proven track record that your method works, then respect each other but don’t try to change each other.
You have to trade your own style because everyone’s risk tolerance is different. I trade conservatively but my trading partner trades risky. Together we have a synergy so we can bounce ideas off each other. We each trade our own account so we each risk what we can tolerate.
If your father is having control issues, he may need to be convinced you have a good risk management plan and the discipline to stick to it NO MATTER WHAT.
If each of you have a proven track record that your method works, then respect each other but don’t try to change each other.
I am not sure why you can’t make money with 8 trades vs. 75. All 75 aren’t winners, impossible, but there is likely a few edges in those 75 that give you the greatest % of your positive expectations. Use the top 2 or 3 edges 8 times a time, and you will likely have more emotional strength to make bigger swings with those.